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Edits to last section

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I drastically reworded the sentences there regarding the repatriation assistance payment. Debito or one of his minions really went over the top this time, stating that the Japan Times had denounced the policy, blah blah blah. The Japan Times did no such thing, and I think the editor who contributed this astounding pile of shit to this article should thank his lucky stars that the JT hasn't sued him for such a stupid comment. Debito writes a guest column -- he is not the editor of the paper and is in no way qualified to take such a stance. Simon-in-sagamihara (talk) 06:53, 26 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Merger of Nikkei, Issei, Nisei, Sansei, Yonsei, Gosei

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Hi

Can't we merge all these duplicating/ overlaping articles Issei, Nisei, Sansei and Yonsei into the Japanese diaspora (Nikkei) page? Besides the obvious repetition, just because these terms exist for the different generations, that is no justification for separate articles. We don't have separate articles on first, second, third generation French/ German/ Chinese/ Portuguese immigrants in WP content on immigrant communities. Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 02:50, 17 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

In support of Rui Gabriel Correia's idea, I would also note that we don't even have individual articles on the overall ideas of first generation immigrant, 1.5 generation, second generation immigrant, etc.; instead all of these closely related concepts are covered at a single immigrant generations page. cab (call) 03:36, 17 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Very valid point, AliBaba. It is actually a very relevant topic - dealing with immigrant societies by generation, bringing into it acculturation, retention of old customs, integration etc. As an example, here in South Africa where I live, it has been only in the past 20 years that the Portuguese, Italian and Greek communities 'became South Africans' (though the majority still keeps their foreign passports). Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 10:43, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose -- These terms have continuing cultural and historical relevance in the national immigrant groups; and the terms are relevant in Japanese laws affecting emigrants returning from the various overseas' communities.

    Each corollary article is a combination of of unique and non-unique content.

    In some areas, the terms are considered conventional; for example, in this abstract from a Honolulu Advertiser news story about the Emperor of Japan' stop-over after a state visit to Canada, the terms Issei, Nisei Yonsei and Gosei are each expressly mentioned; and "third-generation" is presumed to be understood a reference to the Sansei of Hawaii. -- see Dan Nakaso. "Royals' visit a thrill for many older Japanese-Americans," Honolulu Advertiser (US). July 12, 2009.

    This generational naming pattern remains significant; and the continued existence of discrete articles is justified -- not because of consensus opinion among interested Wikipedia editors, but rather because of the existence of reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. --Tenmei (talk) 23:50, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    • The question is not whether the terms are "conventional" or "have continuing cultural and historical relevance", but what is the best way of presenting information with a great deal of overlap. Gosei (fifth-generation Nikkei) in particular contains absolutely nothing unique except two population statistics. The unique content in these articles is also quite problematic --- like the "Demographic groups" and "History" sections, which consist of a blurb on each of three or four countries, with no indication that scholars consider such histories or groups jointly. How can you talk about "sansei history" as a coherent concept when the arrivals of Issei in Hawaii and Japanese in Brazil are separated by more than fifty years? What is there to say about "sansei history" which should be considered distinct from the individual national histories? This is just Wikipedian-invented transtemporal transnationalism. cab (call) 01:15, 21 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know what to make of the points you raise; but I do know this: If our Wikipedia articles are following the lead established by reliable sources, good. If our articles are somehow out in front, not good. --Tenmei (talk) 03:26, 21 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Tenmei, I do hope those sources are actually treating "Issei", "Nisei", "Sansei" etc. as part of a whole. Otherwise I think our articles are not accuratly refering what they are saying. So the fact is that by merging these articles we are not going out in front of what reliable sources are saying. To adress your earlier points, no one is arguing that these concepts are not seprate concepts. We are arguing that the best way to present those concepts is in a combined article. The relevant guideline is WP:Merge. In particular it is beeing argued that these articles should be merged because there is a large overlap between them. The fact that the concepts are different is not itself enough to state that these articles should not be merged. Consider the example given at WP:Merge, which is flammable and non-flammable, two clearly distinct concepts but best treated in a single article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Taemyr (talk • contribs) 15:10, 21 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, Tenmei. I don't know what you are opposing. It is not a vote, it is a discussion. Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 13:10, 21 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fellow Wikipedians, Reviewing these articles, I am inclined to agree that the overlap in content is far too significant, and the differentiation far too small to support keeping them separate. We would provide a simpler, better coverage of the terms by merging, as proposed above. - Ryk72 'c.s.n.s.' 11:51, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Japanese-Brazilian ranking

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Why is there such a wide window (600,000–1.6 million) when it comes to the total Japanese population in Brazil? Given that, shouldn't it be placed below the US on the ranking?

only hawaii in us have much japanese people but in brazil have 3 states with this imigration (sao paulo/semi-southern, parana/southern and para in amazon/northern) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.64.32.15 (talk) 18:08, 15 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Number of Japanese Brazilians

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This number has been altered twice by an IP editor in recent days with a reference to Brazilian census data and a note that some Japanese Brazilians may be in Japan. The most authoritative academic source I could find on this topic was Diaspora and Identity: Japanese Brazilians in Brazil and Japan by Mieko Nishida. Right at the beginning of the book, it says, "There is no way of knowing the exact number of Japanese Brazilians from Brazilian census data, in which one is required to identify oneself by 'color,' not by ancestry. Of course, not all Asian descendants identify themselves as 'yellow,' and some non-Asian descendants do. After all, in Brazil, one's subjective 'color' does not have to reflect any of his/her exact ancestries." With this in mind, I have reverted the change. There are multiple similar estimates of 2 million from academic sources if there is something wrong with using the Japanese government as a source here, but the general range does not seem to be in dispute across major sources. Japanese American Museum of San Jose says there were 1.4 million in 2004. The Japan Foreign Trade Council said 1.5 million in 2021. National Geographic said "almost two million" in 2016. This Yomiuri Shimbun article from this year uses the figure 2.7 million. I don't see a clear reason to change the source or the figure, particularly not as drastically as was done in the suggested edit. Dekimasuよ! 03:17, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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